More about: Bree Hart

On all corners of the music industry, you’ll find majority men. We can talk until our faces are blue about gender inequality and the way all creative industries feel set up to pioneer men over women, from the tired groupie stereotype to the ins and outs of attempting to tour when you’re on your period. We still have a long way to go till we can put the conversation to rest, but meanwhile, women truly are coming out on top in terms of talent.

From photography to the latest tracks we love, women are leading the way as we looking into the future. And one name to know is Bree Hart, a tour photographer that has worked with the likes of Ashnikko, Lewis Capaldi, Declan McKenna and more. With her fair share of victories, horror stories and pro tips, we sat down to discuss being a woman in the photo pit, fighting for space, respect and better working conditions.

GW: How did you get into photography?

BH: I did photography for my visual arts HSC (like the A-Levels), and specifically did music photography. I took some photos at a metal show for a publication like Gigwise in Australia that I loved, using a touch of long exposure. It was a mistake at the time but they ended up looking so painterly. The guy had this long flowing hair and his t-shirt came out looking like Jesus Chris on the Shroud Of Turin. It got me thinking about how i worshipped musicians and the experience I’d had at live gigs and with live music was the closest I’d ever gotten to a religious experience. Gerard Way was like a god to me… - so I built an exhibition matching every image with bible passages that used the same language we use now to describe rock stars. I ended up placing in the top 2% in the country, the work was exhibited, and I thought I’d be guaranteed to get into photography at university. I didn’t.

After a few years and a couple failed attempts at an animation degree, I moved to London to pursue photography. Once I was there, I ended up meeting an artist called Barns Courtney and took some early pictures of him. He introduced me to another artist, GIRLI, and from then it was all word of mouth or meeting people until I got a call from Virgin asking me to work with a new artist called Lewis Capaldi.

Did you know you wanted to do something in music before you knew you wanted to be a photograph?

Yeah! I knew I didn't want to perform, perform, I am not a performer. I became obsessed with the idea of touring by watching MCR’s documentary Life on the Murder Scene every day after school, and equally obsessed with photography from my inherent and maybe irrational fear of forgetting anything. My passion for music and photography really developed at the same time. I was terrified of forgetting these experiences so I always had my camera with me, obsessively documenting everything. I’d queue up for hours so I could be at the barrier to get the best shots. It didn’t even occur to me that there was anything special about the photos I took until my dad pointed out to me that I “actually have a really good eye.” But there was no obvious place for a woman in the touring world. Instagram didn’t exist at all, it didn’t even occur to me that tour photography could be an option, and any crew I saw at gigs were male. 

"It was actually a woman at the artists label who told me I was only there because I looked good in a bikini. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that a man would never have to deal with comments like that..."

It seems like there’s more pressure for female photographers or female creatives in general to be known or have a personal brand

It’s strange, I feel like most notable male photographers I know are relatively anonymous- you probably wouldn’t go to a show and recognise them. But with social media now, women especially feel the pressure to have people care about them as people, what they can bring to a job, beyond their talent. At least I know that’s true for me. Almost every job I’ve been hired for so far in the music industry, was for who I was, not because I was the best photographer in the industry. When it comes to touring, where you have to essentially live with these people and see them every day for long periods of time, I do think that’s important. It’s also always nice to be well liked and considered easy to work with, on top of being able to do the job well. I take it as a big compliment. 

There’s a point though, where as a woman you start to become increasingly aware of where that likability crosses a professional line. Early on in the biggest touring job I’ve ever had, it was actually a woman at the artists label who told me I was only there because I looked good in a bikini. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that a man would never have to deal with comments like that. 

After that I found myself wondering if I’d need to dull down my personality, dress differently, or care less about my appearance in order to be taken seriously. I really believe women have more battles to fight to prove they deserve to be in the room, and then on top of that, be lovely, easy going, personable. I know I got that particular job because I was a woman, to balance out the testosterone, so to speak. I also know I lost that job because I was a woman. 

Even being hired as the token woman can cross a line into being predatory, or you can see why a lot of women feel uncomfortable in a heavily male environment...

Touring is an inherently unprofessional environment. You’re seeing these people more than you’re seeing your partner or your friends - you have to get on. But if you’re the only woman in a crew of like 17 men,  there’s a high chance that one of the men in that crew is going to start seeing you in a way that isn’t entirely platonic. We’re all human, I’m not saying that should never happen or there’s anything wrong with people who develop feelings in that environment. It just will. 

While I’ve never personally felt endangered by anyone I’ve worked with, every single tour I’ve been on where there’s been a predominantly male, I’ve had several comments about several crew members having a crush on me. I know they mean it as a compliment, but it makes me feel entirely invalidated as a worthy member of the crew who’s there to do a job that I hope I am doing well at. 

"It makes the world of difference to have one other person in the crew you feel fully understands you. If they’re the figurehead of that crew, the whole dynamic changes. It’s great."

Do you notice a different vibe when touring with a female artist?

Even when I'm touring with female artists, it's definitely still male dominated, or at best 50/50. But I do feel like the energy is very different. Touring with Jade Bird and Shura was so healing for me, and they were the only women on their crew. The way everyone communicated was different. The way I was communicated with was different. It was so healing and empowering after so long touring with men. Touring on a bus is so not ideal for women. Like just as one example, having your period on a tour bus is so terrifying and awkward if you’re the only woman - and something I feel like I can never acknowledge. It makes the world of difference to have one other person in the crew you feel fully understands you. If they’re the figurehead of that crew, the whole dynamic changes. It’s great.

It’s hard cause it won’t change until it changes, even in photo pits is it still majority men?

Yeah, except sometimes at real pop shows actually. But what I do find interesting is the changing vibe between generations. Especially older male photographers in comparison to the new generation of fresh talent, both male and female to be fair. There was one particular time when I was in a photo pit with two other younger women and two older men. The younger generations all know each other or make an effort to introduce themselves and help each other out by moving around, not staying too long in a certain spot. Whereas the older guys made no effort to introduce themselves and didn’t move at all, the whole show, from the centre of the pit, right at the stage - the second I got too close to try and get a shot, they were quick to tell me to move. Maybe it just comes down to fresh to the fresh talent being more eager, passionate, loving what they do and feeling lucky to just be there. They have that drive to constantly do better and be better. I suppose that’s a natural thing to lose if you’ve been doing it for decades, and perhaps that’s why the older generation come off so harsh. 

What I find with this new generation of talent is that that drive is never at the expense of being a decent person, or being accommodating to other people who are also there just trying to do their job, that they love as much as you do. They’re so willing to help each other and champion each other. I never feel like I’m in competition with other women in the pit. We all admire each other so much.

I guess that’s the upside of the feminine pressure to always be kind - have you been confronted with any drawbacks of it? Like women naturally feeling more awkward around demanding their monetary worth?

Definitely. Men seem to know already that they’re worth it, and therefore get treated like they’re worth it, get paid fairly and are less likely to lowball themselves. When I was starting out, my rates were so low because I still just felt so excited and grateful to be doing the job - but then I found out male photographers were asking for nearly four times the amount I was but every time i’ve asked for more money, i’ve been met with a no or a deeply uncomfortable exchange. There’s a lot of people doing great work to pull back the curtains on pay and being open about it to help other women know what they can or should be charging, but there’s still this fear that you’re not worth it or asking too much or will come across demanding or rude for simply stating what you’re worth.

I try to remind myself that I'm doing no woman any favours by low balling myself. When it comes to big artists and big jobs - the money is there and you are worth it.

As you said about just feeling grateful to be there - women in music are so often painted as like hobbists while it’s a man’s career…

100%. Across all corners of music women are held to a higher standard and a far higher critique. You see a woman in a band and people are picking apart her technique or doubting her as a musician. If you’re attractive, people will say that’s the only reason you’re there. If you don’t look hot while working, people focus on that. It’s relentless. 

Bree’s tips for getting into photography:

• Connect with other photographers - reach out to people you admire on social media, ask questions and make some friends!
• Never view the women in the industry as your competitors - they’re your allies, try and nurture those relationships and be open with each other about pay, treatment, contacts etc. 
• Take your camera to small gigs and get the practice in.
• Set up your socials and showcase your work - but don’t get caught up on follower counts, it’s really not that big of a deal.
• Reach out to small, up and coming acts who might not have the budget for a photographer. It’s a great way to grow and develop together, and you have no idea who will be the next big thing.
• Never undervalue yourself - people are going to do that for you, you have to hold steady to your worth. 
• Know your boundaries - tour buses are full of banter but remember while people can make a joke and make fun of you, they can’t disrespect you. 
• Reach out to publications.
• Don’t treat any interaction with anyone as insignificant - you never know where a good first impression will get you, and being decent and kind is a superpower.

Grab your copy of the Gigwise print magazine here.

More about: Bree Hart