Time has ultimately made Phobophobes' 2018 debut LP Miniature Word a fascinating portrait of this brooding south London band. Releasing the record some way on from the group’s formation in 2013 - a factor laced with tragedy which we’ll come to below - has meant a richness of experience comes across in this dark, psychedelic tinged offering.
In addition to his Brixton base, frontman Jamie Taylor wrote lyrics during a trip to the States when working for a famous artist as a carpenter and fabricator. Heading out to places such as Iowa, the South Londoner birthed the more absurd lyrics there. He also spent a year in Paris, which was where the track 'Chucetta' was born and it beautifully captures the seedy underworld of the city and his time spent living in the 17th district. So it's got a lot of scope.
But let's start at the band's genesis, see what the plans are for their second album, before returning to explore some of the themes on Miniature World.
Essential for any fan of Phobophobes, read the highlights of our in-depth interview below:
In one way or another they've been one of South East London's best bands for over a decade
The sole constant members of Phobophobes - South London born and bred singer and songwriter Jamie Taylor and keyboardist Chris OC - have been a presence on the South London guitar scene for some time.
Though Phobophobes were officially born in 2013, starting there in the mid-noughties, Chris and Jamie were in a band called The Pepys - their sound was a lot more Libertines than you'd expect if you're into the dark psychedelia of their new album Miniature World.
The men were teens at the time and earned their first gigs with The Pepys at The Ivy House in leafy Nunhead (a stunning, unassuming pub venue/theatre where Ian Dury and the Blockheads famously played). The night they would play is called Easycome Acoustic Club and run by promoter a named Andy Hankdog. "He would put on anyone who wanted a gig," says Jamie, displaying modesty his ability at the time but also saying the truth. It was at The Ivy House for this - and at other gigs in small venues around the area - that they would connect with the likes of bands The Saudis and The Metros. Of which, some of the members - Saul Adamczewski in the case of The Metros; and Lias Saoudi and Nathan Saoudi from The Saudis - would go on to be Fat White Family.
Emphasising how close-knit the band became with Fat Whites and their alumni, Jamie says he used to live with Lias Saoudi [singer] when they were at art school together and "Lias’ little brother Nathan [who now plays keys] got expelled from school and came to live on our sofa."
Jamie goes on: "The Fat Whites thing always comes up with us. We've been sharing musicians and I think Chris and I played in Fat Whites at some point as well. Our album got released quite a lot longer after theirs did." The singer pauses for a second before uncomfortably stating: "So we kind of get slotted into all these bands who are great but you can tell were listening to their record [Fat Whites Family's debut album] quite a lot and trying to recapture that time. But we were there at the time."
And Jamie's made an important distinction: Phobophobes are trailblazers. They dug deep with some truly obscure references such as German garage rockers The Monks and Scottish punks Country Teasers to get to their early sound. A sound which was a lot more about the punk energy compared to the more sophisticated, songwriting based but still savage sounding debut album. So they've never been about being reactive to a trend which is massively popular; they opened the doors for others who would reference them and go far.
They've come out of a wormhole... under the blessing of George Russell's mum
To reiterate what singer Jamie says above about their album coming out later than contemporaries', the gist of of it is this: Phobophobes' early years gigging in London were part of a buzzing local circuit that the music industry noticed and their early sound was representative of a particular moment - and scores of fans were expecting them to get huge - but they don't have an album release timed to show that time. Their debut album - out on Ra-Ra Rok Records - didn't see a release until 2018.
A complicated run with various managers and the death of guitarist George Russell contributed to this.
"As you've probably read, George [Russell], our guitarist and dear friend died," says Jamie. "He got into heroin really and died. That was after we finished the record. It was going to come out on this one label but obviously that throws a bit of uncertainty to a band from the perspective of a label. We weren’t really a band but we had a record."
"It threw everything into a wormhole, we didn’t know where to go from there," adds Chris. "But Jamie pushed it through and encouraged it to keep it going then a few more members came in. It was from the encouragement of George’s Mum as well actually. She said we shouldn’t stop as it’s part of her son’s legacy. So there are a lot of things that spurred us on."
Not every member was able to carry on as quickly, though. "Elliot [Nash, bassist] left. George and he were best mates - they lived together and they were brothers basically - so he couldn't really do it after George passed away," says Jamie. "The great news is Elliot’s back in the band! But now he’s playing baritone guitar and lap steel.
"Elliot was really good and then he left so it was a real blow to the band musically. He came back but didn’t know if when wanted to commit to a touring band but he came to record the second album in Spain with a producer called Youth. But now he is now back full-time."
Hang on? Youth from Killing Joke!?
Phobophobes' second album is recorded with Youth
With Elliot Nash back in the band on lap steel, Chris OC on Keyboards, Jamie Taylor on vocals and guitar, Bede Trillo on bass, Jack Fussey on guitar, and Nathan Ridley on drums, the band, fronted by Jamie, have indeed recorded their second album with Youth. Recording with him at his studio in Andalusia, Spain - an upgrade from mixing duties he did on Miniature World.
It's also a very different line-up compared to the debut album. Mostly written with the late George Russell on guitar, Miniature World also had Margate-based troubadour Dan Lyons - who has just announced support slots with Pete Doherty - on drums. Currently replaced by Nathan Ridley, Dan's exit from the band is hinted at as a sacking by Chris and Jamie.
"It was a bit of a conflict of interest," says Chris. "He was starting to push his own project and we were at the point where we wanted to up what we were doing. So it was sort of better for him really to focus on his solo stuff."
"He’s an amazing drummer but also a bit of a frustrated lead singer," agrees Jamie. "We thought it would be better for him really to focus on his own project and that's where Nathan came in. He replaced Dan for our first headline tour which Dan couldn’t do for some reason? Oh! He wanted to go to SXSW. If he’s not going to commit to our first headline tour..."
So with the new six-piece formed and the band looking stable, the band sought funding from PRS and received it. They got signed to Ra-Ra Rok Records for the second time, this time with more budget and the head of the label with more recognition thanks to management success with Shame and Black Midi.
"It’s been pretty intense," says Chris when referring about a six-month period of pre-production to get to the point where they're at now. A point where they're nearly ready to release the album and are set to tour it. "Every week there was something leading up to being in Spain."
Some of this intense time spent on the album was spent at the band’s rehearsal studio in the basement of The Windmill, Brixton. A studio which Jamie built with the help of the band. It’s somewhere - at one point - he would invite band members around whenever they were free individually to record instrumental layers, a process he likens to creating a hip-hop record, as opposed to a punk rock album. It's a new way for the band but a lot of the complexities and atmospheric flourish on Miniature World came from post-production. The heart of that album was captured as a band playing in a room together.
Another key location, essential in demoing new album songs, was the Sussex coast town of Bognor Regis: "We were spending the weekend at Elliot’s parents. They’d gone away and we cleared out the front room and turned it into a recording studio,” explains Chris. Throughout, new drummer Nathan has also been truly essential in producing the first demos so that they could be prepared to go to Youth’s studio and would make demo good enough to be later sampled into Youth’s mixes which mostly consist of stems recorded on high-end gear. A cut and paste process which hints at a diverse sounding album ahead.
So with Bognor and Brixton demo cutting behind them and most of the graft done, it was time to cram, and get the new band line-up to gel. The answer? A 17-hour drive down to Barcelona to stay in their drummer Nathan’s best mate’s studio for cheap just before heading to Youth's. “It was like a black box tv studio, says Chris. “Big enough to set up and sleep in and we worked for 10 days from 11am to 11pm."
It’s understandable why they put so much into getting ready for Youth in Spain. He is one of the all-time greats. Playing a pivotal role in the industrial post-punk band Killing Joke, one of his crowning moments (at least to us Nirvana fans) is his influence on Nirvana. Famously, his riff on ‘Eighties’ is thought to be where Cobain got the idea for ‘Come As You Are’.
Youth’s also opened his doors up to a lot of English bands despite living down in the south of Spain. Great albums by Desert Mountain Tribe, Happy Mondays and Black Grape have been recorded at his studio recently. And though - as mentioned above - he played a key role in mixing Miniature World, getting to record in his studio will undoubtedly take their sound to new heights.
Chris says it was another 14-hour drive south from Barcelona and only 10 or 11 days spent there and they laid down a track a day.
Jamie adds that work continued when they got back to London: “We did more post-production than on the last album. We never wanted a live album, it wasn’t a studio live band not what we’re after always wanted to working into the stems a bit and bring a bit more in it."
The next live shows will debut new material
Phobophobes are playing a few shows in the coming weeks. Perhaps the most notable is a spotlight 'Rising' show at Liverpool Sound City where they're being plugged as the next big thing. As to what this and other shows entail Chris says:
"I guess we’re gearing up, slowly getting the new album ready live. In terms of what it’s like it’s a follow on from the first album, we think it’s a step up. In equal measures there’s downbeat stuff and almost rave-y stuff that touches on the absurd."
Jamie adds that his lyrics, which are largely ambiguous on the first, are more direct on the new release. So an interesting setlist on the cards, for sure.
Phobophobes are masters of creating dark scenes with a self-deprecating twist
Speaking of lyrics, Phobophobes' lyricism comes from a balanced spread of profound, humorous and cynical. One of the finest lines in their oeuvre to sum this up is the following line from Miniature World album cut 'Human Baby':
"Laced with feigned faux socialism/Fairtrade cocaine in your system/Put it in the bin/Let the children fish it out."
Jamie's reference to Fairtrade cocaine stems from his love of watching Stewart Lee who says in his stand-up: "There's no Fairtrade cocaine, is there? If you buy drugs, you're connected to a supply network that links you to slave labour and violent death.
"And in that respect, drugs are the same as all Apple products.
"And there's a new app you can download that gives you live updates on Chinese factory worker suicide rates."
"It’s a bit of a pisstake," says Jamie of his own reference to it. "The amount of people who winge about all this stuff who've spent the weekend shoving coke up your nose that they've picked up from a drug dealer in the street in Clapham or whenever they live and they're trying to save the planet. And you know bringing myself into that, self-hate."
The latter half of the line: "Let the children fish it out" is impressively apocalyptic: "That’s a literal one about landfill. It came from an idea that we’ll all be mining our own rubbish. We’re throwing away a lot of stuff and it’s probably going to be dug up by our childrens' childrens' children to get the resources we need," says Jamie.
"It's like real life becomes like some sort of obscene joke," laughs Chris, emphasising how they find a lot of their lyrical narratives from social observation.
They're also very sincere
Phobophobes have continued with a lot of grace since George Russell died and even though George had passed away before the hi-end studio sessions for their debut album, they used a lot of demo recordings he was on to ensure his playing was across most of it.
Knowing that before listening to the album when we hear the lo-fi tenth cut on the album 'Bite The Apple' and its lyrical reference to the spreading of ashes, you know, heartbreakingly, it can only be one person.
Of the creation of this track Jamie says: "It was a jam we recorded on my iphone and then George died. We wanted to finish the song and half the song was written and I wrote the second half of the verse lyrics after he died. The first half was trying to encapsulate his struggle with life and addiction and the second verse was after he died so it’s self-explanatory really."
The sadness of George’s death lingers throughout our interview and it’s something that no words can console and something we find hard to directly express sympathy for during the interview. Our deepest sympathies go out to the band for what happened. Hearing how they’re carrying on - the scale they're carrying on - and how George's mother appreciates it carries his legacy forward is great. And the band will play a special local show on 16 May at Unit 12 Brixton Market where a donation from the door will be made to local mental health charity Mosaic Clubhouse.
It's #2019yearofthephobe
After discussing some concrete plans about the tour with Jamie and the clear, direct goals they have to go forward and put everything else that matters in their life ot one side, Chris OC says:
"It’s been a slow and hard slog, a lot of friends of ours have had immediate injections of cash from the right people and it’s been served on a plate for them and it’s pushed them really far and that’s fucking amazing. But for whatever reason it’s been a slower game for us. But with that comes so many benefits. We know what we’re doing and we’re really ready to go.”
And we have to agree. The band have played live for well over a decade if you count The Pepys and earned a fanbase the grassroots way. They’ve also got the determination, stamina and creativity to shine in this saturated world of pop music.
Producing the brilliant debut album they did in the most painful of circumstances and then immediately following that up with the second album produced by Youth, it’s all shaping up to be a very positive year for Phobophobes.
We’ve seen the #yearofthephobe being brandished about on their own social media and we think they’re absolutely right. 2019 is theirs for the taking.
