Across the last two years Annie Zaleski has been working on the extravagant book, Lady Gaga: Applause, a chronological document of the artist's discography from beginning to now. As well as being a music journalist and author with work in The Guardian, Rolling Stone, Billboard and more - Zaleski is a stan.
Delivering an intellectual deep dive into Gaga’s life, from her family and home upbringings, to each one of her crazed phases (including the iconic meat dress), it's a definitive piece on the pop icon. Across this book Zaleski appeals to a wide audience of Gaga fans with thrilling facts and enticing grabs of previous industry interviews with Gaga. If you thought you were a Gaga fan, I condemn you to read this book, because you’re bound to discover something new.
Talking fandom, Gaga and becoming an expert on the topic, we spoke to Annie Zaleski about the book...
GIGWISE: How does it feel to have the hardcover of your book?
Annie Zaleski: It’s amazing, there really is no feeling like getting a box of books in the mail. I worked so hard on it and for so long, to be able to hold it in my hand, it’s completely gratifying. There are no words, I’m a writer, but I’m completely speechless.
GW: What’s been the most rewarding part about typing up this book?
AZ: That’s such a big question
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GW: I always start with big questions; I think people might hate me for this…
AZ: No, it’s good, I appreciate it! I’ve been a fan, (and I hope that’s registerable in the book), but I’ve been a fan of Gaga since her first album. I’ve been following her career very closely; I’ve written about her for years. To really be able to dig into her history, her music and drill down into why it’s so revolutionary how many people relate to her and why she’s such a phenomenal, transformative popstar was really gratifying. I learnt so much during my research and gained so much more respect for her.
GW: Yeah of course, that all sounds like it’s been quite an amazing process for you! What would you say has been the most striking piece of information you stumbled upon whilst making this book?
AZ: I think the most amazing fact I learned was that she grew up in an apartment building that had such a rich musical history. I don’t think her family moved into it knowing that, but the fact that she moved into this place that had studio vibes really impressed me. Also, how she got her role in A Star is Born too, she and Bradley Cooper started working and really connected. Her music career has been covered so much, musicians pivoting doesn’t always work, musicians pivoting to writing or acting can sometimes be dodgy. But the amount of hard work she put into it; I was really impressed by that.
GW: Yes, definitely I completely agree, I’ve spoken about this recently actually, I think Gaga’s made a really swift transition into film. Can you expand a bit on your thoughts towards Gaga’s pivot into film? You touch upon this in your book across the A Star is Born chapter, and in the last chapter you touch upon House of Gucci.
AZ: What’s so interesting is that the good and the bad thing is that the book is that the deadline was right before House of Gucci came out. Which was a bit of a shame, I think the trailer came out as we were finalising everything with the book! It’s interesting because one of the things that also strook me, is how much she’s pivoted across her music. On a broad level she is sort of lower east side club dancer, to pop star, but she’s done artsier things like with Tony Bennett, Joanne was a musical shift for her too. I think she’s just so used to that, doing her entire career is based on pivots, so her shift into acting in a lot of ways makes perfect sense. On another level, she treated it much like her musical pivot, she went all in, she didn’t have a cameo she had a starring role in both movies and that takes a lot of work. She could’ve stopped doing music, but she didn’t. It’s incredibly cliché to say someone puts 1000% into something they do, but Gaga does. Whatever she’s working on at that moment, that has her full attention, and I think that’s what’s most impressive about her acting too.
GW: It does sound cliché, but Gaga is such a star and she was born to be exactly where she is right now. How would you summarise this book to your fans who have ordered it?
AZ: First and foremost, it’s a celebration of her career, it’s a chronological look into how she become Gaga. It digs into life before she became a star, all the way up to her rise to stardom. Some of her fashion statements, onto her philanthropy (which is another big part of her career), into her acting and wrapping up to where she is now. The Chromatica Ball tour is taking place in the US currently, obviously it was sadly postponed during the pandemic, I started writing this book during that time, so unfortunately, I wasn’t able to get a chapter in on the Chromatica Ball.
GW: Gaga’s career isn’t just about her music, a lot of her work is very image and visual based. She’s forever creating iconic looks and visuals. Did you manage to go to any of her live dates for the Chromatica ball?
AZ: No, and that’s what’s so frustrating. She’s touring stadiums with very limited dates; I’m based in Cleveland, Ohio. I’m so sad because I’ve seen her perform at tiny arenas, but I think I’ll probably have to watch it on YouTube.
GW: I went to see her recently at Tottenham Hotspur stadium in London for the very first time. It was incredible, I cried lots. How many times have you seen her live?
AZ: It’s around 3-4 times, I saw her in a theatre tour right when the Fame Monster came out. Then I saw her arena tour a few times, Like I say I live in Cleveland, sometimes shows come here, but not a lot so I’d have to travel.
GW: What’s it been like to see Gaga play at smaller capacity venues? I couldn’t ever imagine seeing her in that environment.
AZ: It was mind blowing, I remember it was the hottest show in town, tickets sold out immediately - I was living in St. Louis at the time. It was a theatre of a couple thousand people, I remember the production being so over-the-top, that it felt like an arena show. It was just phenomenal, she was so self-assured, I was totally blown away. I’m pretty sure there’s a review on that out there - It completely lived up to my expectations.
GW: I wanted to ask you about your research for this, I’ve spotted you’ve gathered a lot of external research from interviews via The Guardian, Independent, GQ etc, amongst doing this, what other ways did you research into Gaga?
AZ: It’s funny, I ended not doing interviews for this book, I ended up doing previous interviews. Honestly, she’s on my bucket list, I’ve never interviewed Gaga, a star like her is difficult to get interviews with when she’s not promoting something. Obviously, it was a slightly difficult thing because we were running with this last year. I was worried because she was sort of off cycle, so I didn’t approach her, but part of me didn’t want to. I wanted to type it up this way because she’s done so many interviews in the past when promoting her albums. It’s been very interesting to watch her as a character study, she’s so documented.
GW: I completely respect that, Gaga is at a fame level like no other, she’s right at the top of the chain in the electronic-pop scene. You’ve covered so much ground across this book, I wanted to ask you, what is your personal favourite part about Gaga’s journey?
AZ: That is such a good question. Her New-York journey I liked, just because it was the mid 2000s and I was just out of college. The music scene was so exciting then, the scene that she was creating in at that time I could really relate to, but I will say that Born this Way, is an album that I will always come back to the most. Artpop at the time, I didn’t quite get it, but what was interesting, researching that and re-listening to the record, I since have so much more respect for it than I did back then. I regret having a review out there now that isn’t that positive.
GW: Oh, I wouldn’t worry, as journalists’ reviews are always that first impression – that first listen. You never know, you could come back to it in a decade’s time and do a major anniversary piece and scope a new angle. Are there any other eras you particularly love or are unsure on?
AZ: I love Joanne, from a musical perspective that was such a leap forward for her song writing wise. I’ve recently really started to appreciate that album a lot more since writing this book. Since digging into her family history, I’ve noticed there’s a real tenderness and sentimentality to this album. For the moments I’ve been indifferent, I always know she’s going to pull it off. When she released Chromatica at the beginning of the pandemic I thought this is exactly what we needed. She’s one of those artists that you can never write off, because you never know what she’s going to come back with.
GW: I agree, she’s extremely unpredictable, and that is really rare. Like you say with Chromatica, she definitely dropped that at such a perfect time, a time where the world felt like it was ending, and it needed something to lift it up. Did you find yourself having to listen back to each album and re-watch her movies to scope your chapters?
AZ: Absolutely, it’s funny because I was looking back and over the years, I’ve reviewed the vast majority of her records. So, I had a lot of writing to begin with, it was nice to revisit that, and to listen to these albums with fresh ears. First off you get so used to these records, I heard Poker Face so many times, so I put that on a shelf for a little bit, being able to come back to it with fresh ears, made me realise how unique it was in comparison to the other pop albums that were released back then. Right now, because we’re just over a decade removed from that scene, you can really hear how different Gaga sounds.
GW: After reading your book I discovered that Gaga was 23 when she released, ‘Telephone.’ I couldn’t believe it?! With each album her maturity and her musicianship is so rich.
AZ: It’s funny you say this, because she’s always seemed so much older, sophisticated, and mature. She was so young out there, and so self-assured, I was definitely not that way at 23, not even close. That really impressed me too, how hard she worked at such a young age. Her fearlessness has always been a factor built in.
GW: What’s so great about Gaga, is that you know there are so few artists that have this level of respect and care for their fans and work. I wanted to ask you just two more questions; The Fame won best electronic album and Poker Face won a Grammy, what stage in your life were you at when you heard The Fame and what did it mean to you at the time?
AZ: At that time, I was living in St. Louise, I was in the middle of America, the mid-west. I was working full time as a music editor at a weekly newspaper, I was working super hard and in my late 20s. I was definitely having the: omg what am I doing with my life, type of conversations of course. The Fame was so popular it extended into 2009, I met my now husband in the summer of 2009, it’s so interesting because that record came out in a pivotal and transitional stage in my life. I was always into a variety of music, but I was super into pop music at that time. It was such a golden age for pop music, so it really hit the sweet spot for me. Gaga from the beginning has been along the ride with me as my life has taken twists and turns. That record has lots of elements of all the different types of music I like.
GW: Yeah, she’s sort of played as a guide for you. My last question is a big one, because best till last and all that jazz. But what made you decide to curate this book?
AZ: You know, the publisher reached out to me about it. I honestly didn’t hesitate, I’m a complete fan, I’ve written about her across so many occasions. It was a total coincidence, happy accident almost. I don’t know what caused them to reach out to me, but I was so excited. It was such a dream opportunity.
GW: They probably did some research themselves and spotted you were a consistent writer of Gaga’s work and journey. But that’s really great to know they reached out to you, because I think they found the perfect person. Once this is out, I think it’s going to be a big moment for yourself and the publishers.
AZ: I really thank you for that, and for wanting to interview me about this. I’m very proud of it and thrilled to be able to talk about it.
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