More about: The Stone RosesThe-WaterfrontThe-HIgh

“[It’s 1984 in Manchester and] Clint Boon had a factory with forklift trucks lying around so we used to record us throwing bottles at it, and record us running them over,” laughs Chris Goodwin, while recalling his great time spent in industrial psych band The Mill. They’re a band thoroughly influenced by Krautrock and “anything mad”, and featured Goodwin, Mani of Stone Roses fame and Clint Boon of Inspiral Carpets fame.

This avant-garde project came about as Mani and Goodwin’s first proper band together, The Waterfront, was beginning to disintegrate. The Waterfront featured John Squire, Andy Couzens, Kaizer, Mani, Goodwin; and, occasionally, Ian Brown. They all had some rehearsals up in Andy Couzens’ parents’ house in Macclesfield, which sounded like fun - “We’d jam for an hour then play pool for an hour and a half” – but they never played live. He says that they didn’t push themselves. Goodwin soon dipped out of the Waterfront line-up because of the long journeys to Macclesfield (he had work in a bakery in Manchester at 4am every morning after getting back around midnight). Coupled with the fact lead singer Kaizer went to join the army, and you had a group of young people who were now about to find their feet in different projects; one of which would be the mighty Stone Roses.

The Mill was a good alternative to The Waterfront for Goodwin. They rehearsed in Manchester itself at Boon’s Mill studio (the studio name came first) which would be much more accessible for Goodwin and his job. Also, Boon was in a band with Goodwin before called The Hungry Socks which was “a daft early thing,” so they were mates; and Mani and him go back to their school years. Reflecting the chaos of The Hungry Socks - who were led by Martin Swiny - he says: “We just turned up to a gig without rehearsing any songs whatsoever, we picked people up in the van on the way and make stuff up as well as play tunes by Joy Division Cramps, Clash. Our mate Swinney was the main force behind it. We used to all swap instruments too.” Did Goodwin sing at all? “Yeah! There’s a song called ‘New Dawn Fades’ that I sung.

The Mill, by contrast, are not as daft as their bottle throwing antics would suggest. Their sound now stands the test of time – and apparently Mani is up for reissuing some cassettes: “There’s not many [cassettes] left. I keep saying to Clint 'let’s bring it out', and Mani’s up for it. Some of the songs are really good.” But back then their experimental behaviour wasn’t to Ian Brown’s taste. The soon to be Stone Roses frontman was adapting to The Waterfront not going anywhere, and was indeed curious about what they were doing:

“Ian [Brown] and Andy [Couzens] came down to The Mill rehearsal when Mani, myself and Clint throwing bottles at forklift trucks,” says Goodwin. “But Ian took one look at us and he went, ‘Yeah, no thanks. See ya next week.’” Trailing off, he mutters: “That was another meeting with Brown that didn’t go too well.”

Goodwin doesn’t delve into any more detail about the above, but it does hint at some of the difference in creative direction that he and Ian Brown and had at the time. Goodwin tells me later in the conversation that after the awkward Mill rehearsal with Brown that he did get asked to join The Stone Roses, who by this point had adopted the name, but it wasn’t the right fit:

“I did go back again but the songs were too heavy compared to what I was into. I was more into the Waterfront stuff, Orange Juice-y, Postcard Records type stuff. They went off to do more heavy stuff. Not goth but…..” The heavy Roses Goodwin is speaking of was recorded by Martin Hannett in 1985, was their debut single ‘So Young’ and had Pete Garner on bass, and Andy Couzens, John Squire on guitar.

Admittedly, in hindsight, it’s a tough gig to turn down; and in a past interview with Louder Than War, Goodwin admits regretting it. But, what I get out of speaking with Goodwin is the sense of someone who’s reapt the rewards Manchester had to give in its most influential scene ever. Moreover, the bands he kept busy with whilst Stone Roses were finding their feet were incredible. To name a couple, T’Challa grid - who are like “The Chameleons and Echo and The Bunnymen” according to Goodwin - were tipped to be the next big thing; and Asia Fields were a unique band. Of the latter Goodwin says: “They were very ahead of the time and remind me of A Certain Ratio who are probably more influential now than they were when they first started. It was a punky thing and some of the rhythms were quite Cuban. Lots of congas and bongos and stuff like that.”

And with the decision to not re-join The Stone Roses being his choice, he was always around the early Roses gigs, and there’s no bitterness. He recalls some of the antics that went down, including a famous night at Clouds in Preston in 1985.

“I can remember one of the early Roses gigs when we went to Preston there was loads of us and the local Preston lads turned up. That was a sight to behold. It was like a Wild West brawl. But there wasn’t too much violence,” says Goodwin, reflecting how the mod rivalries some of the Roses were in with their scooter ruins infiltrated the band scene.

Leaving his own projects aside for a moment, our conversation moves to speak more generally about Manchester as a scene; and how it helped him get signed with his band most sustained commercial success, The High.

“There were so many bands around where we lived in North Manchester. Loads of lads wanted to be in bands; you don’t get that anymore,” says Goodwin. Offering more insight about the underground scene in Manchester in the mid-80s he liked most, Goodwin praises The Boardwalk in 1986 as a particularly special time:

“There would be about 40 lads in there. It was a football-y type thing, but all into music. There’d be like Sean, Bez, the rest of the Mondays, Noel, some of us, The Charlatans. It was way before they were all in bands. It was good as you could go and watch, say, Spacemen 3 on a Sunday night and you’d recognise people and this scene started. It was just before the main Hacienda thing.”

“The main Hacienda thing” Goodwin is referring to is the shift that happened when the club went from losing money, to – in 1987 – creating a space that embraced electronic music and ecstacy that would change the face of Manchester forever: it would bridge the gap between tribes, see less people beaten for what they wore.

I put it to Goodwin that he must have been surprised at how much of a change away from his indie identity - listening to Orange Juice etc - it must be to get into clubbing. He agrees that he didn’t see it coming but in detailing how natural the shift was it makes complete sense that he did:

“We ended up in Amnesia in Ibiza watching the DJ Alfredo,” says Goodwin, reflecting his new found joy of electronic music. “He would play Talk Talk then some Spanish flamenco, then a house record. It was an eclectic mix. Just a brilliant thing for music,” says Goodwin of a sound that’s distant, but not intangible from the sounds being championed around the Boardwalk in 86.

These European trips helped germinate ideas and chemicals that would change the morale of Manchester. Of the transition going on of Manchester as a “dismal city” (Goodwin’s words) to what it is now, he says “people were looking at different ideas; more European [ideas]. Tony Wilson was partly responsible for that. He was dragging Manchester into the next century.” And “people started going abroad, bringing drugs back” says Goodwin.

And with a dazzling future now on the cards for many bands in the Manchester scene, largely thanks to e culture and the Hacienda attracting all the big labels from London, Goodwin, like many other aspiring musicians, was in a good place to get signed. The High formed when he, Steve Davies, Andy Couzens had been the backing band for Steve Diggle of The Buzzcocks started their own band. Couzens had left Stone Roses after being in the band marginally longer that Goodwin. A well-known force on the scene, and obviously some sublime psychedelic guitars and pop melodies, they were well wanted.

“We played first at The Ritz but I think we got signed after playing The Hacienda; It was about the second or third gig”, says Goodwin. “We didn’t have jobs after that so were out in the club a lot after that," he adds. “Opening up more about else was on the cards when The High got signed, he says: “At the time when we were rehearsing in Manchester, we had Tony Wilson and all the Factory lads coming around to see us. They wanted to sign us but we didn’t want to get lumped in with all the Manchester thing so we signed to London Records."

The High chimed intricate guitar work with effortless 60s pop melodies had a sound not entirely removed from what the band had come up with in The Waterfront with John Squire et al. Simultaneously, The Stone Roses were also finding their sound and had drifted back to more of that poppier Waterfront sound. Of the sonic similarities of The High and debut album Stone Roses, which have largely been mis-perceived as The High nicking off The Roses, Goodwin says it’s not a case of any purposeful referencing: it’s much more complicated as the two bands were so intertwined with Andy Couzens being the main link.

“When Pete Garner left and then Mani joined, and Andy left they did start to go onto a poppier thing. People used to say to The High were copying the Roses. Well we were playing the same poppier stuff with The Waterfront then the Roses went into a heavier thing. It used to wind me up a bit.”

As another parallel with The Stone Roses, The High first single came out of demo sessions with Martin Hannett who put out the Roses’ first single. Named ‘Somewhere Soon’, it was released in 1990 and it’s a majestic piece of work.

Hannett was a natural choice to work with. According to Goodwin, Couzens and Hannett were especially close; right up until Hannet’s death. Couzens had worked with the producer on the Roses’ first single and Goodwin had worked with him when he was playing for Steve Diggle, too. Recording with the producer best known for Unknown Pleasures is remembered fondly. Asked about what technical knowledge Hannett has, he says, “When we were recording with him he’d always have his head in a magazine. Obviously his ears were amazing but he was knew about everything. He could talk at length about anything. His son, who was about 10, could take a telly to bits and put it back together. He was brilliant with machines. A genius.”

The High, however, were moving away from Manchester scene slightly, and recorded the debut album “with John Williams at Richard Branson’s place at The Manor in Oxford. The first album stands alone’ it’s timeless,” he says. “We did a second record that didn’t get released. The record company were trying to push us into a heavier sound, more Nirvana. Grunge was happening. It went a bit pear shaped.”

Was it friction between record company and the band?

"I think Andy was keen on that direction but I think that was the beginning of the end really. We are never going to be influenced by Nirvana. We’re not going to start growing our hair. I think Andy was swayed a bit but it wasn’t our cup of tea.”

Can we get our hands on this elusive second album? “It’s on Ebay for about 100 quid or something. It’s called Hype. There were a few that came out. I’d rather it stay where it is. But, to be fair, there are some good songs on there.”

With The High disbanded in 1993, Goodwin was starting to wind down. He played with One Summerbut it wasn’t to last: “We did a few tours in 1994. Then we all got proper jobs,” he says. Since then, life’s been focused on a family business he has in Southport. He’s made the exception of returning to the stage occasionally: not least in 1999 when he was asked by Johnny Marr to perform with him and Bernard Sumner for Top Of The Pops in their band Electronic. It’s a proud moment as it’s the second time he’s played for a band he was a fan of first. Sumner' Joy Division are his favourite band of all time, and Steve Diggle who whe was with before The High was in The Buzzcocks which were a huge influence, too.

Goodwin's also played a One Summer anniversary show that was packed out in Manchester, but has largely stayed clear from playing live and releasing music in recent years. Now Goodwin’s back supporting the re-recording of The High’s ‘Say It Now’, which he isn’t playing on but it was in the live set when he was in the band. And most relevant the reissue of The Waterfront’s ‘Normandy (On A Beach)’ and the b-side ‘Where The Wind Blows’ - also for Record Store Day. We salute the cause as all profits from this Waterfront release are going to Christies hospital in Manchester.

How did this idea come together to re-release the song that puts right so many mis-perceptions about The High borrowing The Stone Roses’ sound?

“We’ve got Colin bringing out the Waterfront in the Vinyl Revival shop. It’s a record shop in the Northern Quarter and he’s a really cool guy. It was his idea. He approached Mani and I. It’s a great song and it’s a way to make money for Christies hospital which is a big cancer hospital in Manchester. People have lost family and friends through cancer and we all thought it was a great idea. That’s what we’re doing.”

What was it like recording the tunes with The Waterfront back in 1983? “It was weird. That was one of our first recordings. The studio was in his front room or garage of this guys house and his whole family came to meet us at the door. We did this recording and half was through recording the songs, his mum would come through with a tray of biscuits, all this rattling going on when you’re trying to record,” says Goodwin. “But, it was charming; very rustic. It sounds pretty good listening back all these years later.

His memory jogged, he adds: “I don’t know why I did this because we had already rehearsed it a particular way, but when we recorded I decided to pick up these two bass drum beats, and I put a floor tom and a snare down and I just stood up to play. I think it’s because I’d seen Bobby Gillespie in the Jesus and Mary Chain stood up playing the drums." A bit Velvet Underground-y in a way, then?

“Yeah! Moe Tucker… He was doing stuff like that as well. And I remember Martin Hannett with the Roses when he first came he got rid of loads of his drums and sent them up to the toilet somewhere. And sometimes it works better stripped down.”

As for the b-side 'Where The Wind Blows', Goodwin says: "It makes me laugh. When we were recording it we had to do that whistle and we must have done about 50 takes, and we couldn’t stop laughing. If there’s four or five of you stood around a mic and everyone’s flicking the v’s in your face or making u laugh pulling funny faces. Every time I listen to that I hear the whistle and it makes me laugh.

And listening back to the tunes now there’s definitely a charm, and it’s proof that whatever project Goodwin’s been involved in has been great. Going back to 83, and as far forward as 1999 with Electronic. Are we likely to see Chris Goodwin return to the stage any time soon though?

“I’ve got lots of offers, I keep thinking I’m too old but then again there seems to be a a market for older people nowadays, so who knows?”  I hope we see Goodwin return to a kit soon. But for now we’ll keep on blasting out ‘Normandy (On A Beach)' and The High and think about the people who’ve played such an important part in UK indie history and in Stone Roses being the iconic band they are.

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More about: The Stone RosesThe-WaterfrontThe-HIgh