Photo: WENN
“It’s just upbeat - its still the same sad bastard songs.” deadpans Nathaniel Rateliff, in response to the charge that his music has taken a seismic shift in direction from the folky introspection of his earlier records.
It’s a comment that’s characteristic of the conversation I have with Rateliff and his friend and Night Sweat, Joseph Pope III. It’s a chat filled with Rateliff’s sense of fun and wry, self effacing humour - but it’s often punctuated with struggles they’ve faced along the way. Much as underneath the raucous delivery of his music bubbles a great deal of heartbreak.
Both Rateliff and Pope are open when talking about the music and the personal circumstances that surround it. Pope explains that the new direction Rateliff’s music has taken is “just more fun to play, or it’s a different kind of fun.” Rateliff adds, “One time we were playing 'S.O.B' and he was like, ‘I know everybody loves that song, but I just know what you wrote it about. I remember that situation and it bums me out.’” He turns to Pope, “You were just like, ‘I feel like I’ve failed you as a friend.’"
Pope pauses to think, “I try not to think about that actually, and [instead] look around at what we’re doing and [see] the joy of the crowd and all that stuff. Especially because we were over here [for] one of the first times playing it. The time in Nathaniel’s life when he kinda drew on that inspiration for that song he was in London, and I was back home. It was the only time we had ever communicated via Skype.”
Rateliff: “We were both just crying [he laughs and pretends to cry]. My world had been just kinda shattered.”
Pope: “Which kinda shattered my world as well.”
Rateliff: “When you get older and leave home you develop these relationships with people who become your family. The family you grew up with you have a distance [from], especially for us, I mean were about 12 hours away from any family members.You kind of end up having your own life [and] once you have that family group and you fuck it up…”
Pope: “It’s a real sense of loss.”
Rateliff - "I’m totally gonna cry all day!"
In terms of the reaction, of some, to the change in musical style they have taken, both seem faintly surprised. Rateliff said, “I don’t know why people get so upset about genre. Especially because who ever gave a shit about what we were doing?” Pope adds, “I think it’s partially because of the world we live in now. When Bowie was creating what he was doing we didn't have so much connectivity between the world, and culture has changed a lot. There’s this weird ownership over celebrities, I’m not say were celebrities, well you might be.” Nathaniel: “Really? Hmm.”
On the subject of ‘connectivity’ and social media, Rateliff seems fairly dubious of its value. ”I try not to look at anything, but there was some sponsored link for our gig over here, and somebody just wrote, ‘no one cares’, and I was like, you little fucking prick.
“But its kind of ridiculous to be upset. I just feel like there’s a culture - it’s just like - how have we gotten to be these cynical, spoiled little shit heads? Have they never gotten spanked? Have they never gotten slapped in the mouth by their parents? Is that how it happens? It’s kind of a shame our culture is like that - did everybody forget [that] ’if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say it at all’?"
Pope: “And, I mean, we’re joking about it but this is an issue of bullying that teenagers get online to the point of being driven to suicide.” Rateliff: “When I was a kid I got bullied, but once I figured out you could actually beat up the bullies then I just started to beat up all the bullies and became like the bully of bullies. I think I bear hugged a kid until he cried.”
The new album was recorded with Richard Swift, who has also worked on Damian Jurado and The Shins' albums. Rateliff explains that his approach was very much of the ‘just get on with it’ variety, which appealed to his own sensibility. “We just hung out. We’d do a song a day and just try to get the vocals done before I got too drunk or before Richard got too drunk. I can play drums drunk, I can play bass drunk or if I get too drunk somebody else can do it. I was kinda having a hard time in my personal life while I was making the record too so…”
Pope: “That always helps right?”
Rateliff: “Yeah, because then you kind of isolate yourself in the studio and you let that emotion pour into what your doing whether that’s what the song is about or not. It tends to be exactly what all the songs are about.”
I suggest that along with RnB and soul there’s a thread of gospel music in Rateliff's own material, and wonder if that is a result of his religious upbringing? “It’s funny because the music we played in church was like the whitest shit you ever heard. My mum was a songwriter and she wrote some beautiful religious songs, and I love the Soul Stirrers and the Staple Singers.
“[It’s] definitely not for the sake of it being or because it’s religious. I kinda removed myself from that way of thinking, pretty much right after we moved to Colorado. I guess you’re brought up in the church and then you start to develop and become your own person and you’re like wait, ‘Anybody read any of these other fucking books?’”
Pope adds: “We were kinda on the edge of the bible belt in Missouri in a small town - and there’s a lot of churches per capita - it was pretty across the board. Not everybody attended church but it was very much part of the fabric of the community. But yeah getting away from that and getting out on our own was an opportunity to make our own decisions.”
Rateliff: “Yeah, because you would never be like ‘ I’m not sure God’s real’ in that environment because people would be like ‘What?’ I remember I didn’t go to communion once and my Dad got so mad.”
Rateliff and the Nigh Sweats have built a really strong live reputation, which has seen them move from the 200 capacity Lexington to their forthcoming gig at Brixton Academy in less than 18 months. One thing Rateliff’s not a fan of is smartphones at gigs. “Sometimes we’ll like give it hell, and sometimes we’ll think you guys don’t even deserve this. You’ve just been standing there this whole fucking time [with your phone]. Just fucking watch it. It’s like that old Andrew Dice Clay gag - ‘how’s my friends gonna know I sucked your dick?’ - ‘Here’s your fuckin’ receipt’. Why don’t you just remember it?”
I ask why Rateliff thinks this album has resonated with so many people. He says, “It’s pretty brilliant, so… Honesty I don’t know what it is what people connect with this one more than anything else. If I knew some secret I wouldn’t be worried about writing the next record or would have done this 20 years ago when we were younger and had a full head of curly hair.”
I suggest some of its pull lies in the lyrics of 'I’ve Been Failing''s refrain, “I can’t stop trying.” It’s inspiring, rousing, hopeful music. For the first time Rateliff forgoes the gags, and there’s a wee tear in his eye as he explains, “Yep, they have that element of hope. I remember when I was a kid and I asked my mum, ‘mum why’s your life so hard? My life’s hard, how do you keep going? She said ‘because that’s what life is, you keep going; because that’s what the human experience is, it’s struggle and growth.’
And so there’s that and hope. And yeah or else what else is there to look forward to?”
Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats full upcoming UK tour dates are below. For tickets and more information, visit here.
NOVEMBER 2016
Wed 9th Southampton O2 Guildhall
Thurs 10th Leeds O2 Academy
Fri 11th Glasgow Barrowlands
Mon 14th Birmingham O2 Academy
Tues 15th London O2 Brixton Academy **upgraded from 28th June show at The Forum. All existing tickets remain valid**
Thurs 17th Leicester, De Montfort Hall
Fri 18th Manchester O2 Apollo
Sat 19th Bristol Colston Hall
Sun 20th Norwich UEA
